Rest

Hebrews 4:9-13: 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself ceased from his works also as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Let’s face it honestly… many of us are aware that everything has been done for us by God in His Son.

The works have been finished since the foundation of the world (Hebrews 4:3).  He has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness in Jesus… and in Him, we are to partake of the Divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4).  Our calling is to have Christ formed in us (Galatians 4:19).

We should be able to humbly say, as Paul did, “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

Paul exhorts believers, in Colossians 2:6, to walk in Christ in the same manner (by faith) as we have received Him.  He also warns the Galatians about the foolishness of trying to bring about their own perfection by works of law, rather than by hearing and believing.

John says that those who say they abide in Him, should walk (live) just as Jesus did (1 John 2:6).

Yes, we are aware of these things.  Some of us could even get up in a “Church” and preach a good sermon about it.  There is a problem, though.

We have mental, academic knowledge, but little or no practical reality, and this glaring deficiency must be corrected, by the grace and Spirit of the Lord.  If we fail to come into true rest in His finished works, then we are in disobedience, according to Hebrews 4:11 above.

In this paper it is my desire to call attention to the reasons for the deficiency; and, far more importantly, call attention to the way out of the dilemma.  If even one person is truly helped or encouraged by this writing, then I will be satisfied.

I wish I could be writing this as someone who was living in the reality and fullness of genuine life in Christ.  Unfortunately, I can’t… but, until someone comes along who can genuinely teach and model these truths and realities, I don’t know what else to do but think, pray, look into the Word, and share and dialogue with others who are wrestling with the same issues.

I’ve surely had tastes of the realities I speak of, but certainly not in any kind of real, satisfying fullness.  I’ll speak a bit more about this at the end.

So, why do we have this huge gap between what we know, and what we experience?

I can think of several reasons.  Others can think of more, and perhaps post a comment.

  • Biblical discipleship has been changed from being and doing into hearing, taking notes, debating and bible-studying.  Practical, living realities have been converted into “religion”.  We say things like, “Oh, Bessie; Pastor Feelgood preached a powerful, life-changing sermon today.  How awful that you missed it!”  Then we go out to lunch or go home to watch the football game on TV, sermon-notes in hand, ready to go on a shelf to collect dust.
  • Instead of truth being pressed upon us by people who model it, and then teach and demand it, we “listen” to the marvelous “preaching” of people we barely know, and who don’t know us; and to deepen the problem, most of what they teach us is garbage.
  • The faith” began as something that was all about God; His purposes and agenda; His glory and honor; His awesomeness and worthiness of continual praise and exaltation… and was lived out by men and women who were, simply, full of Christ.  It has become something about us, in one form or another, being lived out primarily by phony “Church-goers”.
  • I believe that for the most part, we don’t even want true biblical discipleship.  Deep down, or maybe not so deep down, we know how costly and painful it will be, and we’re really not all too interested. Don’t get me wrong… there will also be great victory and joy in real biblical discipleship, but it doesn’t come cheaply.

PLEASE, watch the video at the bottom of this page to get a good idea what I’m talking about.

  • Last but not least, I believe we are not a broken, repentant people.  We barely see our sins of apathy, unbelief, self-centeredness and rebellion against God’s truth and ways, if we see them at all.  There is a great, great need for breaking.  Instead of discussing the latest, greatest message on prosperity or anointing, as we sit in a Starbucks sipping a latte, we should be sitting in sackcloth and ashes, tossing dust on our heads.

OK, so we’ve looked at some of the reasons for the horrific lack of the life and presence of Christ in our “Christian” lives.  I’m sure there are many more, but let’s try and take a real look now at the solution.

I mentioned earlier Paul’s warning to the Galatians about trying to perfect themselves through law-keeping, rather than by grace through faith.  I believe we have the same problem.

NO!, We’re not trying to keep the Hebrew law (most of us, anyway), or throwing out all our pork chops and bacon, but we are seeking maturity, or perfection, or godliness, or “a pleasing walk for the Lord” through our own efforts.  This is the long-lasting legacy of the religionizing (is that a word?) of the faith that happened a long, long time ago.

We “do our devotions” and follow five-step formulas and tithe and “witness for Christ” (well, a few do, anyway) and pound ourselves into submission in bible-study or prayer and volunteer for the “greeter” job that’s been long vacant… but mainly, we just go about our own agendas in life, because frankly, all that religious effort is tiring.

I say I believe the points that I started this paper with, those amazing truths about Christ and what God has done for me in Christ, but my life and prayers betray me.  I’ll give an example.

I’m tired… frustrated… wanting real life in the Lord… needing and wanting genuine fellowship… yearning to see the life and presence of the Lord among and through His people.  So I pray something like this:

“Lord, I’m so needy of you.  I need to be walking in the Spirit, and to be full of your Spirit.  I want to see you honored and glorified.  I need a breakthrough, Lord, like Hudson Taylor, and many others in the past have had.  You know, Lord, the exchanged life breakthrough.  Lord, please bring that breakthrough.  I’m calling upon your name.”

“So, what’s wrong with prayers like that?” you may be asking.  Here’s what’s wrong with it:

Has God given me everything I need for life and godliness; or not?  Is Christ in me, and I in Him; or not?  Have I taken part in the death, burial, resurrection, ascension and enthronement of Jesus in the heavenlies; or not?  Are the works of God finished from the foundation of the world; or not?  Am I walking by faith, and not by sight; or not?

OK, that’s prayer.  What about life?  Here’s a practical illustration of my stupidity in life:

I may have just finished a great, inspiring time of prayer and communing with the Lord.  I’m feeling good.  I go downstairs in my Hotel, order some food, and go back upstairs.  I’m hummin’ and praisin’.  Life in Him is good.

They bring the food up and they have gotten it wrong… again, for crying out loud.  Displeasure creeps in.  As I eat, I may be stewing about how they always (OK, often) mess things up.  The “feel-good” edge of my time with the Lord is disappearing quick.

What’s my point about my prayers, and my practical, life example?  My point is this:

I have been called to put off the old man and put on Christ, by grace through faith… called to reckon the old, corrupt nature dead, and myself as being alive again in Christ, by grace through faith… called to take hold of His word and promises, by grace through faith… called to walk as He walked, by grace through faith…called to live out these realities and truths, instead of living out the reality of fallen, rotten Gene, by grace through faith, not by sight.

If we base our beliefs on what we see in our life and ways, will will never apprehend the reality of Christ in us, the hope of glory.  We’ll only remain pathetic Christians “trying” to do better, or perhaps not even that.

If I’m begging and pleading with God for what He’s already given, is that faith?  If fallen, rotten Gene presents himself in a multitude of situations, is that faith?  If I’m “trying” to do and be what God says I can’t possibly do or be, is that faith?

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I don’t want this writing to be just another pile of words heaped onto the limitless pile of more words out on the information superhighway.  We have to break it down and begin, truly begin by God’s grace, to live in truth, and not be like Pilate, who sneered, “What is truth?”

We are called to overcome the world, the flesh and the devil.  We can only do that by taking hold of God’s truth, not by studying it, or debating it, or preaching it, or twisting it for our own purposes, or ignoring it.  Overcoming is mandatory, by the way; not optional.

God has done everything for us.  It’s finished.  There’s nothing we have to do, except trust it, take hold of it and rest in it.  Then we will see the reality of it spring forth.

If I’m begging God for realities He’s already given, or giving place to my old, corrupt nature (or my corrupt religious nature) to constantly come up from the grave and show how wonderful he is, then I’m surely not trusting, taking hold or resting; am I?

Are you?

We need to be broken and truly repent.  May God grant repentance to us.  We can’t even do that right, without Him.

Now, I will give one practical example of walking in truth, rather than in stupidity.  You were waiting for that; right?

One day, not too long age in Sai Gon, I found myself frustrated and hacked off about something.  I don’t even recall what it was, but I do recall that it had me very unpeaceful and in turmoil.  After a while, I turned my heart to the Lord, and started to say, “The man who gets frustrated and bent out of shape by circumstances died two thousand years ago in Christ.  There’s no longer any need or reason to get all messed up over this, because the person who reacts stupidly and sinfully to unpleasant circumstances is dead and gone, and I’m not going to allow him to come up from the grave.  Thank you, Lord, that you killed that man off.”

I was shocked and amazed, as you may soon be, to discover that everything became peaceful and calm.  The emotional storm was over, and I moved on with my day in peace and rest.  This is what taking hold of God’s truth is all about.  Unfortunately, I don’t operate like that very often because  I’m too busy doing my job of being stupid and getting myself screwed up.

Sound familiar, perchance?

One final point (wipe that grin off your face):

It will be much better, nicer, cooler, happier, groovier, neater, more beneficial, more fruitful, and lots of other good stuff, if you pursue these truths and realities with at least one other person who, like you, wants to get real with God and move on with Him unto His praise and glory. If you seek to do this alone, you’re going to have a very rough path to walk.  It won’t be easy with others, but it will be much better.

Find at least one other.  You will need to spend real time with each other; and be very real with one another; and speak truth instead of religious cliches; and probe in the Word; and most importantly, get on your faces together before God… without the need for someone to “open” and someone to “close” the time of prayer.

I know this is a lot to ask. Your religious flesh will recoil in horror, but there’s no way round it.  Trust me on that.




29 Responses to “Rest”

  1. Good post but we have only scratched the surface.
    You said: “Instead of discussing the latest, greatest message on prosperity or anointing, as we sit in a Starbucks sipping a latte, we should be sitting in sackcloth and ashes, tossing dust on our heads.”

    This brings to mind the post you referred to about “Sorrow of a Wasted Life”. My problem being that when we use phrases like “we should be sitting sackcloth and ashes, tossing dust on our heads” or spouting how sinful and dreadful we really are as in the other post, it becomes impossible to rest in God.

    We can rest when like Jesus we can say it is finished. The best example of what you were trying to bring about was the story you shared at the end, when you realized with all of your frustrations the old man was killed more than 2000 years ago.

    What brings about true rest is that willingness to share who we are now. It is not seeing ourselves as lost or broken but found and totally healed. This is what will draw others to Christ. They may have memories of the old us and now that we are different, we don’t curse at the first frustration, we are hopeful and prayerful in the midst of tragedy, then they are drawn to us.

    It is when in the midst of our circumstances our life still radiates a joy that says we love God and He loves us more. This rest comes with practice. It is an ongoing surrender to God’s will over our own. It is taking the word into our lives and choosing each day to live according to it.

    If we spend all of our time spouting how lowly and sinful we are that attitude alone will keep our mouths and our lives closed. If I feel unworthy how can I share in my unworthiness. When I recognize that I am now worthy because of His Son Jesus Christ and that I walk in His will then I can keep my head high and declare He is truly Lord.

    True rest comes from the Holy Spirit. It comes from living in the word and by the word. When you are out of His rest it becomes so blatantly obvious you run back to His arms, to His word, to His promise to you.

    I know no other way to live that brings me as much peace, joy, protection, or provision. Many do desire to get there but we have succumbed to the belief that we advance from glory to glory without any down time, any dark valleys. Secret is in knowing “for thou art with me” oh God. If He began it then He will complete it. If we have been obedient to His voice, then we will come out as pure gold.

    As a mother, I have learned that to struggle during childbirth prolongs the labor, can hurt my child and me. When we struggle to come into the fullness of God’s rest, rather than accept is as a given, without any need for work on our part then we hurt ourselves and the gift that is within us.

    Paul rightly said we must labor to get into the rest. This labor or work is not of flesh, it is simply an acceptance that God’s way of living is right and the only way to live.

    Having lived in various parts of the world, I know it is possible to experience the fullness of God anywhere. I also know I don’t need to give up my life now to be a missionary in some far flung place to experience the miracle power of God. We struggle with things like having “a purpose driven life.” We search for this big grand purpose that if only I can do that then all will be right with my world and I know I am in the will of God.

    We have purpose every day we get up. God created us for His pleasure so He could be with us.

    If you can get through your today knowing that you allowed God to be with you, then you have fulfilled purpose. If when you had the choice to share God’s love, you did, you fulfilled purpose. If instead of being frustrated at having to get up to take care of children or someone else who needed your help, you did it with joy then you have fulfilled purpose.

    God is no longer looking for us to hide our heads in ashes, He is looking for people who will have a heart to feed those around us with His love, with what we have, with our passion for a life souled out to Him.

  2. Nerissa,

    You make some good points, and I hear you, but I want to address some specifics in your comment.

    You said:

    My problem being that when we use phrases like “we should be sitting sackcloth and ashes, tossing dust on our heads” or spouting how sinful and dreadful we really are as in the other post, it becomes impossible to rest in God.

    And:

    “If we spend all of our time spouting how lowly and sinful we are that attitude alone will keep our mouths and our lives closed.”

    On the surface, these statements sound good and right, but let me point out that James said, to Christians a long time ago:

    “Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.”

    Let’s understand he was saying these things to believers in the early, APOSTOLIC Church, which was far, far closer to God’s original purposes and model, than we are today.

    Nerissa, there’s a huge difference between spouting how sinful and dreadful we are… and honestly facing realities, and seeking the face of the Lord for true repentance and change.

    Paul also spoke, in Romans 7, of a long, extensive process of struggle, seeing his own wretchedness, that led him to the point of crying out, “Who will deliver me from the body of this death?” and finding deliverance in the Lord. He faced, and wrote about in scripture, those realities.

    Perhaps you are walking in fullness of life in the Lord, and don’t feel a weight of compromise, or apathy, or self-centeredness, or other such things. If so, then praise God.

    But the great majority of serious believers I know are wanting that fullness, and ARE feeling such weight upon their lives.

    I’m not encouraging them, or myself, to spout about our wretchedness, but to honestly face reality, turn to God, and see Him bring the glorious change and deliverance.

  3. I hear you Gene and by no means have I arrived. In fact the more I learn, the more I can see I have far to go.

    What I have found is counterproductive is dwelling on my own inadequacies rather than seeing them complete in the work of Jesus my Savior. It becomes quite paralyzing and then I do nothing. So many people never share their testimony or lend a hand to others because they are looking at their own lack and inadequacies.

    When I walk out my salvation with fear and trembling, understanding that my steps are ordered, then I can see God’s hand at work in my life.

    We will never be totally complete until we are reunited with our Savior when He comes for us but until then we must not be so overcome with our own failings and flaws that we stop moving forward to complete the plan God has for us.

    The devil traps us that way…and in the end we are powerless to rest as God has commanded us to.

    Love you.

  4. Trulycarribbeanwoman. I thank God for what you have shared here!!!!

    You have spoken my heart out about this matter so loud, it is still ringing in my ears as I write. This is what I have so wanted to share, but have not been given the words to do so, and so have waited on the Lord for them and now He sends you to share it here the way you have. He does things His way. What a blessing.

    Living our daily everyday lives in total surrender, submisssion and obedience to Him and by His leading in everything, no matter what, 24/7, is all He truly wants from us. That is what builds a true relationship with Him. A given life. He wants our living in Him to be as natural to us as our breathing. He builds it that way, Jesus lived like this with His Father and wants us to do the same.

    I also believe that the Lord has to show you how to do this – that we cannot in our own understanding do it ever – I tried for many years and I failed with distinctions.

    I also believe that we have to ask God what He sees when He looks at us, so that we can truly come face-to-face with ourselves and understand what true repentance is all about if we have never understood it, and from that moment on, He can work with a ‘clean canvas’ if you will. We are not to harp on and on about how unworthy we are, because He moves us on from that point if we will only move with Him and we can live in the joy of knowing that Jesus and His atonement has made us wholly presentable and acceptable to God, but by no other way than that. It never depends on who we are as human beings, only by the atonement of His Son and His life in us.

    And as you rightfully said, we cannot rest in Him if we are so self-focussed about our ‘perceived’ unworthiness – it cripples us spiritually and as I shared on another posting, I have seen this firsthand. If we are like this, then we need to ask Him how to be freed from it. He will show us. He will. And yes, only the Holy Spirit can bring us the rest we so crave.

    What a joy to live in Him!

  5. Jessie and Nerissa,

    I believe we are on the same page. Thanks for the willingness to enter in and make this what it needs to be… a conversation between committed, caring brothers and sisters.

    Nerissa, I want to focus on one statement you made and I will highlight part of it in CAPITAL LETTERS:

    “We will never be totally complete until we are reunited with our Savior when He comes for us but until then we must not be so OVERCOME with our own failings and flaws that we stop MOVING FORWARD to complete the plan God has for us.”

    You’ve hit it right there.

    As I already mentioned, Paul wrestled long and hard with who he was in his own self, but he was not overcome, and he did not stop pressing on and in. In fact, it was that very struggle that led him into the reality of a genuine life in Christ.

    I believe Christians have to go through the same, or a very similar process.

    When Paul said, “I know that in me (that is, in the flesh) there is NO GOOD THING,” he was speaking out from hard experience, not from doctrinal correctness.

  6. Hi Jessie,

    Glad to know we are on the same page. I will share this with all of you as I know God did it for me to be able to help others.

    This past year has been about one thing, me pursuing God’s call on my life. I made a request and God took me up on the offer, knowing fully well I am 10 years late and all I was doing was finally saying YES to His call.

    The journey was lonely at times because it was about separating me from my past, my flesh and to learn to walk anew His way. It got to the point this past summer that not even my four children were with me for three months. In that time I had to believe God that was caring for them as He cared for me. I had to rest in the knowledge of His power and care when I could not see them, speak to them or do what mothers do. It hurt but then it hurt more when one day I got up feeling as if I had never even bore a child, much less four.

    Nothing about my life looked like the one I had planned it to be and even the desire to write what God asked me to was gone. Why? I asked. Why have you taken away the very things that you now say I am to do? His question to my question was : Who are you? If you are not a writer, a speaker, a mother, a wife, who are you?

    I like many people get caught up in working the gifts and forget the giver. What I have come to see that the gift is the Giver and He is all I need. Have I got it right yet? Nope. First chance I get, the old me keeps surfacing and I hightail it back to the cross. There is no power in me, only in the finished work of my Lord Jesus Christ.

    I am thoroughly enjoying this chance to meet and share with other believers. God bless you all.

    Gene like you, I live on this computer quite a bit, hence my quick responses. Wish God answered that way all the time…

  7. Nerissa
    I am also kinda connected to my PC!

    I too got to a place about two years ago where a brother who has sadly slipped away in to the world, said to me ” I wish I could get you to stop reading so many books as they are like a crutch for you.” I was so shocked, but I went to the Lord to ask Him if I ought to and if I did , would I have a real relationship with Him outside of even reading my Bible? I wanted to ’see’ if I could manage to live with Him without these so-called ‘crutches’.

    I went for 2 months without reading anything written by anyone, I never listened to any Christian music, I never even read my Bible.
    I had and still have such a closeness with the Lord both during and since that time, that I know I have Him in me and in my life 100%. At times it completely overwhelms me.

    I too also feel at times I may have ‘missed a call on my life’, but right now I can see clearly that I have really never missed it, but that I am fulfilling His call now. I also know that to go and fling myself as a missionary to say China (I live in Africa) is not what the Lord wants from me. I believe that what I am doing right now in my life is what He wants me to be doing – it is so clear. I have no doubts whatsoever that He has connected me with so many others both here online who are truly searching for this reality in their Christian walk.

    When I started walking in His way with Him, I was also so terribly lonely. I prayed one of the most specific prayers of my life since my salvation and that was – Please send me a sister with whom I can learn about You, from, a woman that has walked with you this way before me. In less that 3 weeks, the Lord had sent me Jilly.

    She is almost 70 and we are closer than even her and her daughters and she is straight from the Lord. I always used to think she was His answer to my prayer, but found out soon that she too had been praying for a sister to live with! You see HE really does know our needs and so wants us to have the joy of living in Him trusting Him for every single detail no matter what – it’s all good anyway, and to understand that our lives are in His hands completely.

    He has connected us all.

  8. Sorry Gene if I may be running into overtime here.

    Have any of you ever read or heard about Rees Howells from the UK? The Lord used this book to show me that there was such a walk with God that was completely unknown to me up until that point in my life – noone I ever knew had a life like or even close to this. I have only read this one book about him which was a biography by Norman Grubb and it is called Intercessor.

    As I read, I first wanted to run away because I knew I fell so short, I wanted to cry and often did as I read, BUT the Lord truly showed me that a deeper walk with Him was available to me or anyone else if I or they wanted it – I had to let go this life and all it offered, to live for Him.

    I would really recommend you try to get hold of a copy of this book, even if it is just to read. I don’t think that you could possibly remain the same afterward. I sat dazed for days afterward, but it was the exact thing needed for me to fling myself completely on the Lord Jesus and to never look back.

  9. Hey Geno,
    You say..

    I have been called to put off the old man and put on Christ, by grace through faith… called to reckon the old, corrupt nature dead, and myself as being alive again in Christ, by grace through faith… called to take hold of His word and promises, by grace through faith… called to walk as He walked, by grace through faith…called to live out these realities and truths, instead of living out the reality of fallen, rotten Gene, by grace through faith, not by sight.

    And

    There is a great, great need for breaking. Instead of discussing the latest, greatest message on prosperity or anointing, as we sit in a Starbucks sipping a latte, we should be sitting in sackcloth and ashes, tossing dust on our heads.

    I could not agree with you more. There is a great, great need in the Body of Christ for brokenness and repentance. It is in the midst of our brokenness, we are able to finally understand that HE is all we need. It pushes us to the point that we see that nothing else matters but Him. This is what pushes us to the end of ourselves. It is at this point we see there is nothing else we can do but take hold of God’s truths, and begin to apprehend and take hold of the reality of Christ in us. It is then we are able to truly see we are nothing in and of ourselves, and can put off the old man and put on Christ, by grace through faith.

    The labor of entering into His rest is the surrendering and dying to oneself. Our breaking brings true repentance and change. We can then lay ourselves and all our inadequacies before Him, surrender everything to Him.

    I read something not long ago, it goes something like this…the issue is not the ability of the life to spring forth, but the issue is this… The brokenness of the vessel. The vessel that holds the life captive. We don’t need more power, we need more brokenness. When we are properly broken we will find the indwelling Christ is more than sufficient.

    When we are truly broken it allows the light and the love of Christ to spill forth to the world. We are in Him, He is in us, the old man is gone. He becomes our everything. Our joy and peace is no longer in and of ourselves, or our circumstances– but it is of Him. It is through that brokenness we become open, free and unfettered, because it is no longer us but Him. I believe it is then, that we are truly in the rest he COMMANDS us to.

    Psalm 51:17
    The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

  10. Amen Cris!
    “When we are truly broken it allows the light and the love of Christ to spill forth to the world. We are in Him, He is in us, the old man is gone. He becomes our everything. Our joy and peace is no longer in and of ourselves, or our circumstances– but it is of Him. It is through that brokenness we become open, free and unfettered, because it is no longer us but Him. I believe it is then, that we are truly in the rest he COMMANDS us to.”
    Bless you!

  11. Wow.. Thanks the post and the comments are brilliant. I keep looking at my inadequacies so thanks carribianwoman for what you have said there. It is a trap and we should look at the cross and what Jesus has done. If I keep looking at what’s wrong with me I will never allow Christ to work through those things however it is good in my books to always be aware that we fall short so that our dependancy stays on Christ. Somehow I look at my weaknesses as a reminder that I have not arrived. If I ever feel like I have arrived I fall into pride and ’self righteousness’ so I rejoice that I am weak and He is strong because through Christ and iN Christ I have been redeemed through His grace.

    I rest in knowing that I am but dust and through Jesus, I am His beloved child.

  12. Getting There and Carribianwoman,

    Thanks for your comments. I couldn’t have said things any better or clearer.

  13. Thanks to all for another round of good, quality discussion over a vitally important issue. In my opinion, THIS is what Christian blogging is all about.

    Blessings to you all, and still feel free to continue this discussion.

    Gene

  14. Interesting point about getting angry when they get your order wrong…again. A while back, it occurred to me that when a waiter doesn’t get it quite right and I’m fuming mad, I must consider what it is that I actually deserve. Were it not for the grace of God, I’d be in Hell, where I belong. Therefore, who am I to fret over what I (think I) deserve? Lowliness is the key. Humility is the only place to start, indeed.

  15. Bro Gene / M Patterson
    You have both said something interesting about reacting to people. If the Holy Spirit did not check us at those moments things could and often do get quite awful. I too have done similar stuff and sooo regretted it as it left my mouth. Self-control is also the thing.

    When He does check us in our spirit, we have a 2 choices –
    We can pay attention to the’check’, throw ourselves at His feet, say sorry to the Lord first then to the person our anger is aimed at if it came out verbally, say thank You to the Lord for showing you and carry on with your evening / moment etc. We grow in this. Humility as M Patterson shares above is truly the key here.

    OR

    We can in our arrogant moment, override the Holy Spirit as HE will never force, and wreck it all for ourselves (as Gene clearly experienced) and those around us if we are in a group and then simply wait for the Lord to deal with us which He will, and most likely bring us right back into a similar situation for us to make the choice all over again and learn what He wants us to. And He will. That’s guaranteed. I have experienced this too often in my life to know it is not a chance thing.

    He will discipline us if we are His children. That’s also guaranteed. When we are dead to self, we have no rights. We become His Bondslave a (Doulos in Greek)and a Bondslave would not consider reacting to anything his owner required or saw fit to bring upon him. To become broken bread and poured out wine, He will do it because,

    We are Beloved of God.

    Hey, this Glorious Lord of ours is too wonderful for mere words.

  16. Hi All, I’m a late poster on this one but wanted to wait til a whole bunch of Godly wisdom unfolded. Appreciate all of the comments. Geno, really appreciated the post. I think I can see through the fog a little better now. I’m getting together with a couple of other godly young blokes this week who are in similar places of weeping, repenting, mourning. This stuff will be a blessing and encouragement. I do sense the Lord really speaking through this topic. It’s a journey but I can see now that we have to get to a point of confidence in God, in order to walk this thing out and bear fruit.
    Thanks Bro,
    Tim.

  17. Thanks to M. Patterson, Jessie and Tim for some MORE excellent contributions to this page. The Lord is, truly, too wonderful for words.

  18. Sharing an A.W. Tozer with you all…

    Spiritual Warfare and Sin: The Cost of Quitting

    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. –Hebrews 12:3-4

    If Satan opposes the new convert he opposes still more bitterly the Christian who is pressing on toward a higher life in Christ. The Spirit-filled life is not, as many suppose, a life of peace and quiet pleasure. It is likely to be something quite the opposite.

    Viewed one way it is a pilgrimage through a robber-infested forest; viewed another, it is a grim warfare with the devil. Always there is struggle, and sometimes there is a pitched battle with our own nature where the lines are so confused that it is all but impossible to locate the enemy or to tell which impulse is of the Spirit and which of the flesh….

    My point here is that if we want to escape the struggle we have but to draw back and accept the currently accepted low-keyed Christian life as the normal one. That is all Satan wants. That will ground our power, stunt our growth and render us harmless to the kingdom of darkness.

    Compromise will take the pressure off. Satan will not bother a man who has quit fighting. But the cost of quitting will be a life of peaceful stagnation. We sons of eternity just cannot afford such a thing. That Incredible Christian, 73.

    “Oh God, don’t ever let me compromise to take the pressure off! Keep me fit for battle; strengthen me for the constant warfare. Don’t ever let me settle for ‘peaceful stagnation’ as long as I have breath to serve You. Amen.”

  19. Thanks for sharing that, Sherry. It really says a lot.

  20. Reading through the above posts reminded me of something:

    Some fifteen years ago, I was in a hole that, nomatter how hard I tried, I couldn’t crawl out of. I finally told God that if He wanted me out, He would have to do it as I couldn’t. The result was awesome! No, It wasn’t all lovey-dovey! I had way too much to learn. Looking back on the journey, I see that there were many instances where His light could shine through me even though I still thought myself a failure. I even got burned out on prayer. Now I know that I was asking for that which He was already giving me instead of thanking Him for giving it.

    What struck me hardest in reading these posts is that I had returned to my old way of trying to do everything on my own. Yes, I do thank Him for all that I have, but my mentality is that I’m the one that is supposed to do it! I need to crawl back to Him and ask Him to put His purpose back in my life.

    A question: having been a loner for all of 67 years, how do I connect with someone that we can help each other grow? “Whereever two or three are gathered in My name, I will be there.”

  21. Hey Bruce
    I am so touched by your comment. You really know how our precious Jesus works with us and that is just so wonderful to hear. My father-in-law has just turned 70 and has been learning this over the past few years too. It is awesome to watch how the Lord does this with him.

    I am sure Gene won’t mind me answering your question – You can join us all here anytime. We all visit often and the list is growing. Some of us have our own blogs and you can visit there too if you want, you would be most welcome. Bless you :-D

  22. Bruce,

    We are not to do this on our own! Even Jesus saw that the disciples needed the company of other believers. Otherwise He would have said, Wherever one or more of you are gathered…” and would not have sent to twelve or the seventy out in twos. Ask God to lead you to someone who is on the same path. They will cross your path, I am sure.

  23. Bruce,

    I agree with Jessie and Prodigal Knot. Fellowship here and ask God to bring you together with at least one other.

    You can visit other blogs as Jessie suggested, and get into email contact, too, with me and/or others.

    Be richly blessed, Bro.

    Gene

  24. Speak o Lord

    Speak O lord as we come to you
    To receive the food of your Holy Word
    Take your truth plant it deep in us
    Shape and fashion us in Your likeness
    That the light of Christ might be seen today
    In our acts of love and our deeds of faith
    Speak o Lord and fulfill in us
    All your purposes for your glory

    Teach us Lord full obedience
    Holy reverence true humility
    Test our thoughts and our attitudes
    In the radiance of your purity
    Cause our faith to rise
    Cause our eyes to see
    Your majestic love and authority
    Words of power that can never fail
    Let their truth prevail over unbelief

    Speak OLord and renew our minds
    Help us grasp the heights of your plans for us
    Truth unchanged from the dawn of time
    That will echo down through eternity
    And by grace we’ll stand on your promises
    And by faith we’ll walk as you walk with us
    Speak O Lord till your church is built
    And the earth is filled with Your glory

    by Keith Getty Stuart Townend

  25. Ephesians 3:19 – 22

    For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
    Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreighners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

  26. Mary,

    Thanks for sharing some good “stuff” and scripture.

  27. It is quite a journey reading through all of the posts available here. And how Jesse met Jilly was awesome! I’ll keep praying for that kind of connection.

    I see that I’m not alone feeling hurt that the churches don’t check on us when we quit attending. I sought help at one and they only gave me a phone number (and I hate phones!). I quit going and, six-eight months later, I started looking for another congregation not necessarily in that denomination. One that I had attended twice did call and was disappointed when I had found a better one.

    Another post talked about the blandness of the service. I agree even though most of my knowledge has come from these services. I also read a lot and, with the exception of a few of the minor prophets, have read all of the Bible – some books several times. I did remember while reading that post, however, that my main denomination places tradition above the Word of God! No wonder I’m more comfortable in a couple of other denominations – especially the non-denominational congregations.

    I have found that the smaller congregations – less than 100 members – of many denominations seem to have better services. They seem to stick closer to the scriptures and are more willing to assist their members, and visitors, in their quest to know The Anointed One better.

    Having been a loner all of my life, I’ve never built up a number of intimate friends. When I drop out of ‘going to church’, I feel like I’m missing something and am reminded of “Do not forsake the gathering of believers.” (Argh! Where was that???) I’m also aware that there will come a day when ‘I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;”‘

  28. Bruce,

    I have always tended toward being a loner myself. But since becoming a believer I cannot get enough of being around spiritually minded people!

    I attend a church of about 400. The real core though, are the tenth of that who show up in bad weather on Wednesday nights. And we sing with all our hearts to the Lord and share insights into God and the Word. No band, no performance, no plays, just honest fellowship. And after the fellowship, my brothers and sisters hang out for as long as an hour or more just talking and discussing our lives in Christ and in the world, exhorting and encouraging one another. Our preaching minister put up with me for almost an hour and a half talking about evangelism, answering my questions on doctrine. I didn’t notice how late it had become until I noticed he could barely keep his eyes open while listening to me. He wasn’t bored, just tired after a 12 hour day.

    They aren’t perfect, but they are loving and love the Lord more than most do I’d say. And they will check up on you if you start being a no-show.

    Don’t be too judgmental and keep testing the spirits.

  29. Bruce,

    Keep pressing in to Him, and into fellowship with His people. Those two things are going to be essential for you, and people here and on other blogs will be happy to help, but you also need to have up-close-and-personal, too.

    Praying for you, brother. Let me know if I can help in any way.

    Gene

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